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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2005, 02:34 PM
Bob Masta
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Couple of noob questions

On 5 Dec 2005 17:57:30 -0800, dlenski@gmail.com wrote:

<snip>
Quote:
* What's the best way to do home made PCB boards? Clearly breadboards
and wire wrapping will only take me so far :-) I've seen the toner
transfer method and a couple of others. What's the easiest one to get
started with? I have access to either laser jet or ink jet printers...
Complete tutorial with hints and tips about the direct felt-tip
method at:
www.daqarta.com/lptxh.htm

Best regards,


Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Home of DaqGen, the FREEWARE signal generator
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2005, 04:09 PM
John Popelish
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Couple of noob questions

dlenski@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
Hi all,
I've gotten into electronics thanks to a class I'm taking (only took
until grad school to find out that I enjoy this stuff :-)) I've just
built my first microcontroller project and am trying to get myself
outfitted to do electronics work at home. A couple of questions:

* What's the best way to solder to a DB-25 parallel port connector?
I've done it successfully, but made a horrible mess of things. I
started with some stranded 26ga (I think) wire and stripped off about
1/4" from the end,
That is way too much bare wire. I usually strip about a tenth inch.
And carefully rewrap the strands so that fit the solder cup.

Quote:
then put it in the little hold on the back of the
pin, got out the soldering iron, and made quite a mess.
Fine solder (.031 or .020 inch diameter, activated rosin core, 60% tin
40% lead, or 63 % tin 37% lead). Narrow, but short tip on a
temperature controlled iron also helps. Too hot, and the wire
insulation melts back and the rosin burns off. Too cold and the
solder doesn't flow well. Here is an example of a low cost one:
http://www.web-tronics.com/lesostc.html
and an even lower cost one:
http://www.web-tronics.com/aueltecosost.html

Quote:
Is there a
good way to hold things in place for this operation?
You can stick the metal case of the D connector to a magnet from an
old speaker. Or get a small vise:
http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/dre/dre2214.htm
http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/pvp/pvp201.htm

Then the trick is to use something like an alligator clip
on a flex joint to hold the wire in the cup, so you have two hands to
operate solder and iron.
http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/xac/xacx75170.htm

But eventually, you will probably develop the dexterity to hold the
wire between two fingers, and the solder between a thumb and finger on
the same hand.

Quote:
* What's the best way to do home made PCB boards? Clearly breadboards
and wire wrapping will only take me so far :-) I've seen the toner
transfer method and a couple of others. What's the easiest one to get
started with? I have access to either laser jet or ink jet printers...
I'll leave this for the moment. There have been some good threads on
this subject ,lately, that you can look through with Google Group
searches.

Quote:
* Are there any stores in the DC area that sell electronics components?
The local Radio Shack is terrible and I feel guilty taking a diode or
two from work.
You may discover why we love Digikey and Mouser. They both have
lovely detailed paper catalogs and good web sites with search
capability. Mouser has no minimum order, and Digikey allows you to
choose first class mail postage for small items.

Quote:
Thanks for any advice!

Dan Lenski
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2005, 09:26 PM
JeffM
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Couple of noob questions

Quote:
What's the best way to do home made PCB boards?
...I've seen the toner transfer method and a couple of others.
Dan Lenski (dlenski @ gmail.com)

:There have been some good threads on this subject ,lately,
:that you can look through with Google Group searches.
: John Popelish

Yup. Start here:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...stuff-*-*-PCBs
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...uff+blue-stuff
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2005, 09:28 PM
noti
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Couple of noob questions

dlenski@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
Hi all,
I've gotten into electronics thanks to a class I'm taking (only took
until grad school to find out that I enjoy this stuff :-)) I've just
built my first microcontroller project and am trying to get myself
outfitted to do electronics work at home. A couple of questions:

* What's the best way to solder to a DB-25 parallel port connector?
I've done it successfully, but made a horrible mess of things. I
started with some stranded 26ga (I think) wire and stripped off about
1/4" from the end, then put it in the little hold on the back of the
pin, got out the soldering iron, and made quite a mess. Is there a
good way to hold things in place for this operation?
You could get a "Helping Hand". The best way to solder stuff is

1) Get a good soldering iron. Preferably a Metcal, but at least something
thats ESD safe, heat controllable and designed for electronics work. Make
sure you have a good, appropriate sized tip.

2) Have the appropriate tools, including: helping hand, vise, flux (good
flux, not crappy RS icky golden crap), solder wick, good soldering iron
(see above), tweezers, pliers, brushes, isopropyl alcohol (and dispenser),
different types of solder, sponge, solder paste, heat shrink, etc. A good
clean workbench with magnifying light as well should go without saying.
These things aren't that expensive, so don't cheap out, get them all and
good quality stuff.

3) If you have stranded wire twist the wires together at the end before
you do anything. Always wet the tip of the soldering iron with solder and
make sure its nice and shiny and clean. If neccessary put some flux on
the wire (probably isn't neccesary in this case). Wet the ends you wish
to join with solder. (You can put them in a vise indepently to hold them
while you wet them). Then simply insert the wire in the pin as best you
can and heat it up with the iron which will reflow the solder as
appropriate. Seal with heatshrink if you feel its neccessary. Good
soldering skills take practice but it also takes decent equipment.

Quote:
* What's the best way to do home made PCB boards? Clearly breadboards
and wire wrapping will only take me so far :-) I've seen the toner
transfer method and a couple of others. What's the easiest one to get
started with? I have access to either laser jet or ink jet printers...
The best way is to stop screwing around with nasty ass chemicals which are
incredibly toxic and will give you crappy results. You think any company
would seriously do this stuff? Even for prototyping? For prototyping if
it has to be done in house its usually done with a milling machine.
Otherwise, you could just design PCBs on some CAD software (Eagle for
instance) and then send them out to a board house. They don't charge that
much. Why would you want to expose yourself to those chemicals if you
don't have to? What do you plan to do with them once you've used them?
Please don't tell me you are going to dump them down the drain.

Quote:
* Are there any stores in the DC area that sell electronics components?
The local Radio Shack is terrible and I feel guilty taking a diode or
two from work.
You feel guilty about taking a part from work that costs a couple cents,
but not playing with nasty chemicals which you have no good way to dispose
of? Sheesh, I take pens from work which cost more than diodes inadvertantly
all the time. I can't imagine they'll miss it. However, it depends where
in the "DC area" you are. Mark Electronics and Electronics Plus (both in
Beltsville) are reasonably decent. There are plenty of distributors
(Allied, Active, Newark, etc) in this area, although they may not want to
deal with a hobbyist.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2005, 03:09 AM
Dan Lenski
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Couple of noob questions

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 20:28:41 +0000, noti wrote:

Quote:
The best way is to stop screwing around with nasty ass chemicals which are
incredibly toxic and will give you crappy results. You think any company
would seriously do this stuff? Even for prototyping? For prototyping if
it has to be done in house its usually done with a milling machine.
Otherwise, you could just design PCBs on some CAD software (Eagle for
instance) and then send them out to a board house. They don't charge that
much. Why would you want to expose yourself to those chemicals if you
don't have to? What do you plan to do with them once you've used them?
Please don't tell me you are going to dump them down the drain.
Point taken :-) I *do* work in a lab and know something about handling
hazardous chemicals, however I agree that I'd best avoid working with them
at home!!

Quote:
You feel guilty about taking a part from work that costs a couple cents,
but not playing with nasty chemicals which you have no good way to
dispose of? Sheesh, I take pens from work which cost more than diodes
inadvertantly all the time. I can't imagine they'll miss it. However,
it depends where in the "DC area" you are. Mark Electronics and
Electronics Plus (both in Beltsville) are reasonably decent. There are
plenty of distributors (Allied, Active, Newark, etc) in this area,
although they may not want to deal with a hobbyist.
Wow!!!! I *live* in Beltsville for 1.5 years now. I'd never heard of
either of those places. Will check 'em out ASAP. Thanks for the tips.

Dan
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2005, 03:14 AM
Dan Lenski
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Couple of noob questions

Thanks for all the advice, everyone!

I had been hesitant to try Veroboard because it seems expensive and I know
I'll make lots of mistakes. Today I practiced point-to-point soldering
and was awful at it, so I think I need to use some method that will
require me to not solder little wires to little leads! Today I found this
site with some amazingly cheap Veroboard-type stuff:

http://www.elexp.com/pro_pb16.htm : Veroboard $1.65
http://www.elexp.com/pro_pb19.htm : DIP prototyping board $0.95

Thought I'd pass those links along... about 5x cheaper than anything I'd
seen before!! They also sell kits of capacitors, resistors, ICs, etc.
that seem quite well priced.

Dan Lenski
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2005, 06:16 PM
dlenski@gmail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Couple of noob questions

Bob Myers wrote:
Quote:
No, stick with it - sooner or later, you're going to pretty
much HAVE to be able to "solder little wires to little leads,"
so you might as well practice it now. You'll catch on. A
couple of tips:
Thanks for the tips, Bob. I think my problem may have been that I was
using a plastic perfboard with no copper cladding. Whenever a drop of
solder touched the perfboard, it would cling to the nearby metal. This
made a mess when trying to solder wires close to the surface of the
board.

Is it correct that solder will NOT adhere to a plastic surface?

I had a much easier time soldering two wires which weren't right next
to the metal surface. I guess the board with copper pads is easier to
work with because the solder will adhere to it.

Dan Lenski
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2005, 06:34 PM
Bob Myers
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Couple of noob questions

"Dan Lenski" <dlenski@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.07.02.09.37.308409@gmail.com...
Quote:
Thanks for all the advice, everyone!

I had been hesitant to try Veroboard because it seems expensive and I know
I'll make lots of mistakes. Today I practiced point-to-point soldering
and was awful at it, so I think I need to use some method that will
require me to not solder little wires to little leads!
No, stick with it - sooner or later, you're going to pretty
much HAVE to be able to "solder little wires to little leads,"
so you might as well practice it now. You'll catch on. A
couple of tips:

1. Don't make the common mistake of pulling the iron away
the moment the solder starts to flow; you WANT to get the
melted solder good and hot, so that it flows properly around
(and into, for stranded wire) the conductors. With the
exception of some semiconductor devices, you don't need
to worry about overheating the components - and for those
that do have this concern, you just need to put a heatsink of
some sort (they're sold in clip-on form, or you can simply place
you needle-nose pliers between the joint to be soldered and
the body of the component, if you're blessed with three hands...:-)

2. Make sure the pieces to be soldered are clean - surface
oxidation (or worse yet, some insulating material left on a
wire) with really interfere with the soldering process.

3. Don't use so much solder that you wind up with a huge
glob, but don't skimp, either - a little practice will teach you
the proper amount.

Remember, a good solder joint will be clean and shiny, and
the solder will have flowed well onto the entire surface of the
conductors to be joined - it should be well-adhered to these
surfaces, and not look like it's just barely sitting on top of the
surface ready to be picked off. You should expect to see
some smoke from the joint during the soldering process - that's
also no problem, and is not a sign that you're overheating
anything; it's just flux and other impurities burning off.

Bob M.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2005, 08:05 PM
Bob Myers
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Couple of noob questions

<dlenski@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133975795.417635.270170@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...

Quote:
Is it correct that solder will NOT adhere to a plastic surface?
In general, that's correct - it will, of couse, melt many plastics
while hot, and can really make a mess of things.

Not all metals are solderable, either; copper conductors
obviously are, including wiring which has been "tinned"
(coated with a thin covering of solder or some other
metal/alloy, which both improves the solderability as well
as protecting the bare copper surface from oxidation).
Aluminum, on the other hand, is not easily solderable
with standard tin/lead solders - you can get it hot
enough, of course, but regular solder will just bead
up on an aluminum surface and refuse to "stick."


Quote:
I had a much easier time soldering two wires which weren't right next
to the metal surface.
Yes, that's pretty typical - beside the solder adhering to
the "wrong" surface, having your wires in contact with
metal for no good reason just makes for that much more
metal you need to heat up - and some smaller irons might
not be up to the task, thus making "cold" solder joints
a lot more likely.

Bob M.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2005, 12:10 AM
quietguy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Couple of noob questions

As a suggestion Dan try and pick up an old electronic device or two or three at
the tip - radios, cassette player, video player etc - their boards have lots
of bits on then that you can practice unsoldering and resoldering, and
soldering wires etc etc, and it will not matter if you ruin them (which you
probably will until you get real good at soldering)

But don't use old monitors or TV sets - these are best left for much later

David

Quote:
"Dan Lenski" <dlenski@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.12.07.02.09.37.308409@gmail.com...
Thanks for all the advice, everyone!

I had been hesitant to try Veroboard because it seems expensive and I know
I'll make lots of mistakes. Today I practiced point-to-point soldering
and was awful at it, so I think I need to use some method that will
require me to not solder little wires to little leads!
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